Science as a Way of Life with Martina Ribar Hestericová

In the second part of the conversation with Martina Ribar Hestericová, hosts Nikesh Gosalia and Jayashree Rajagopalan dive deeper into the world of science communication by exploring concepts such as inclusivity in science communication and English as the global language of science. Here, Martina talks about her ideas for cultivating a love for science among young people by using appealing and age-appropriate language, starting as early as possible in elementary school, and teaching science as a way of life rather than an academic subject. 

Martina shares her top content creation tips for running a successful science-based account on Instagram, talks about how adopting a scientific mindset can enhance our daily lives, and shares strategies for keeping up with the latest updates in chemistry while avoiding information overload.

Martina Ribar Hestericová is a Science Communications Manager for Lonza, freelance science journalist, and polyglot with a PhD in Chemistry from the University of Basel and several indexed publications under her belt. Featured on Forbes 30 under 30, Martina is involved in several science outreach projects, including Lonza’s biotech podcast “A View On” and her popular Instagram account science_exercises.eu. Connect with Martina on LinkedIn.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

I want to focus on one thing that you said, it really stuck with me. But before that, I’m going to probably request the team to go back and pick one sentence that you said, which I think is almost a quote that I can put up anywhere. You said something like, SciComm should be every researcher’s responsibility. I’m sure I’m getting the words wrong. It sounded fantastic when you said it. But that’s absolutely true. I think science communication doesn’t have to be a job. It doesn’t have to be something you have to do to earn extra credits. It doesn’t have to be something that you have to do to only promote yourself or do something or do it as a way to advance your career. It is something that probably is going to help every researcher in the longer run.

And when there is a sort of merger or when there is a two-way relationship between a researcher and a research society or publisher, then I think the effort or the impact of that science that is communicated, I think that’s really amplified. I really appreciated it when you said that everything a scientist or a researcher does to communicate that science should be recognized. Even if it’s a high school talk, it is important because it takes effort. And in a way, it’s a leveling ground because even the most experienced researcher may not really be good at communicating their science. So, I think some amount of training is really required.

But I think what I’m really going to focus on here is inclusivity, which is what you mentioned, inclusivity in academia, inclusivity in publishing, and also inclusivity in science communication, something as small as using specific colors. We all know that when we present or prepare graphs, all of these colors are pretty much standard. But does everybody see them the same way? And are we really communicating the science effectively? If we’re not thinking about the diversity of the audience? Are we taking the audience into account?

I’m going to just hang on to inclusivity again and introduce my next question to you here. I know that you write about science for a Slovak daily newspaper and for international physics and chemistry magazines. And you also contribute to the portal of science exercises that your grandfather set up, which is priklady.eu. Now, this is like a really diverse audience that you’re catering to, diverse across age groups, interests, and incidentally, even languages. Given this, when it comes to communicating with millennials or Gen Z, do you think research societies of publishers should aim to be multilingual? Or should we only go for an English-only approach? I’m also referring to or touching upon those opinions. A lot of people have written about how English has become the lingua franca of science communication or research. So, what kind of approach do you think will really work here? And what can publishers and societies do to sort of amplify their SciComm efforts?

Martina Ribar Hestericová

It’s a really, really interesting area you’re touching upon here. I think what we need to realize is, as I mentioned, science communication, to me, is partially marketing strategy. So, you first need to be aware of your target audience. And I think that is really an important point here because it’s a huge difference if you’re communicating science to a niche group of chemists that will read the online chemistry magazine. And it’s a huge difference if you’re trying to explain what are proteins to a group of students in elementary school, right? So, that would be the first step in deciding what kind of language to use and what kind of level of the language to use as well. So, to me, it’s clear that when you speak with students, it makes really great sense to speak their local language to adjust the messaging and to even reach out to their teachers to check their level of experience and their knowledge level so it would fit and you will not overwhelm them with information.

But part of your question that is upon whether English should be used to communicate science generally and maybe among scientists, it began with German, right? And especially in chemistry, it was all written in German at the beginning, and it’s slowly transformed into English. I think it’s too late for us now to discuss whether it was a good decision or whether it makes sense. We are where we are, and we all speak English worldwide. All papers in academia are published in English and then may be translated into another language. And since we currently run with a model of peer review, I think it just has to be done in English. Otherwise, you would be limiting the pool of your experts that can actually help in the process.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

Absolutely spot on when you said it’s not just about science communication, it’s about marketing as well. But I think one of the challenges that societies might face – explaining the rationale behind this question, one of the challenges that societies might face now is we currently have a sort of explosion of digital tools, platforms and channels available. Almost everybody has, not even an exaggeration, at least 1000 channels to choose from. And given that, the thought was just what should be the main language that will really attract a younger generation or would entice even a younger generation of researchers to take up science communication and feel really excited about it and go ahead and talk about it to a lot of people. That was the rationale.

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Maybe I would like to begin with what is the best age to convince someone that science should be the part of their thinking and their behavior. At the beginning, maybe one thing I’d like to mention is that this communicating science to young audiences for me is not performed to convince them to become a scientist only, but for them to realize that science is there to help them, it should be part of their job, part of their decision-making process, how to get the right vaccine, when to get it, how to behave when you gets sick, when to take the antibiotics, when not to, etcetera, how to clean your house effectively, all the things.

So, if we keep this in our minds, I think we should target children as early as possible. Because unless you’re convinced that when they’re 10 years old that science is cool, it’s too late to do it when they’re 20. It’s too late to do it when they’re already at the university just want to finish one degree and be done with the process and then just forget about everything. And if we are to target the very young children, it has to be done in their native language. And this is why coming back to my previous point, really important that researchers should, in my opinion, not all of them and we should not force them but should consider spending some time going back to high schools, going back to elementary schools, talking about general science concepts to young children and their teachers is really important. And I think it will only benefit the entire society.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

It’s a really interesting perspective. I hadn’t thought of it this way. And thank you for putting it across so simply and clearly. I’m going to take a slight detour, change tracks a bit and come back to your personal experiences. So, we just spoke about how you started science communication by sheer accident. And in the course of this conversation, we’ve spoken about how publishers and societies could probably influence this or help researchers to some extent. So, what kind of help did you get? And how did you sort of hone your own skills? Did you ever work with a publisher or a research society? Or did you get any sort of help from them? And how did you just build from that first accident? How did you get to this point?

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Right. So, if we just focus on science communication and science writing, because that’s what I consider to be the main part of my job even now, I was not aware that I enjoyed writing that much until my Ph.D. studies or maybe already in my bachelor’s because I realized that writing up my project into the thesis was actually pretty enjoyable. But it came at around the time when I started communicating science on social media platforms, when I realized that it’s really fulfilling, it’s fun. And it’s pretty quick, actually, for me. And it’s something that I discussed even with my PI at the university and Professor Ward [ph] was really supportive. And I remember having the conversation with him when I decided to be really open and share that I’m considering not continuing in academia but either going into industry or into medical writing or just focusing on science journalism. And that’s when I remember he kept quiet where I was a bit worried. And he stood up and took one book from his shelf and since then he kept bringing me materials to improve my writing skills and also allowed me to write all the publications from scratch. And he would just do the editing.

So, he was a really fantastic source of support. And as I also mentioned, at the University of Basel, there are fantastic courses to choose from to develop your soft skills, your technical writing abilities, and language skills as well. I remember we even had a course on writing in academic English, for instance, and things like that. I always tried to use all of the opportunities that were out there. So, maybe a bit of a tip to our listeners, if you’re a student at the university, go online and check what kind of courses you have available, they can be life-changing, believe me.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

Wow! It sounds like you had an amazing PI. I think in your case, it was a fantastic mix of training, and based on what you said, actual practical experience when he got you to write all of those papers. And since you mentioned that you really liked social media and what you did there, that’s the question that I’m going to bring up next. And this one’s to wrap up this conversation. You set up an Instagram account to spark an interest in the natural sciences. And you also did it at a time when we can say Instagram was sort of stereotyped as a platform for selfies or for fashionistas.

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Lunch images even. Yeah.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

Images of food, damn, which is what I’m guilty of, too.

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Oh, me too, no worry. I have three profiles on Instagram; one is a personal one where I share pictures of my baking. The second one is for my dogs. And then I have the science communication one, so that’s completely fine.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

Oh, my God, okay. I’m not so guilty now. Thank you. So yeah, you chose Instagram, which was we can say to great extent stereotyped as a channel for – a platform for selfies or fashionistas. But then you brought it to a stage where now your account has more than 30,000 to 32,000 followers. So, could you tell us a bit about what it takes to run a successful sciencebased account on Instagram?

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Good question. I think part of it was luck. Because at the beginning, when I started the Instagram account, the space was so oversaturated with pictures of foods and selfies and things like this that if by any chance, my content would pop up on someone’s feeds, it was something new and interesting, and it made them click. I also was always trying to take beautiful images of glassware or of the reactions I was taking or using different lighting and perspectives and things like that to capture their attention and then explain what was going on, use humor, etcetera. And I was always trying to keep the content really authentic. That was back then when I had it a bit easier because the content was creating itself. I was in the lab. I could talk about my work.

Now, it’s a bit more complicated because I need to find topics that are relevant to my target audience, and I can still access. I can’t anymore just go to the lab and set up a reaction. But I can still make it work.
But if someone wants to start now, I think it may be a bit easier because the audience is used to seeing all types of content from doctors, nurses, and researchers online, especially thanks to due to the pandemic, let’s say. And it’s not only limited to Instagram. Now, we have all kinds of things also on TikTok, still great, YouTube channels, so plenty of platforms to explore.

Science Twitter is really huge at the moment, but we probably all know about that. And some of the tips that I would share is do a little research about the platform you decide to explore. Nowadays, people tend to consume more video content. So, ensure that you have a good camera, have a nice external microphone if you can. Now you can really buy them for 5 bucks on Amazon. That’s fine. And think about the content as if you were creating it for yourself or for a family member. Make it interesting and only focus on one message per video. Then it will work.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

I love that you said think of it as though you were creating it for a family member. I think that really describes the effort you have to put in when you’re really trying to communicate science to the people. I think I’ve taken up a lot of time. And I’m sure Nikesh has a lot of things he has to say to. I’ve spoken too much. I need to give it to Nikesh so that he can also introduce any other thoughts that he has or any other questions that he has for you.

Nikesh Gosalia

Thanks, Jayashree. I mean, this was fascinating. This has been insightful, Martina. One of the things that definitely resonated and will stay with me is the fact that you said science has to be a way of life. I have to be very honest, I think for quite a long time, even my perception was that, you have to learn science probably because you have to become a scientist, but like it happens with so many of us, when you have a child, parenting changes a lot of things. So, I have a daughter who’s 4-1/2 years old. And I’ve been trying to just enjoy this phase with her. So, I’m digressing. But just wanted to share an anecdote. So, she has a keen sense of looking at various signs. It could be road signs, it could be signs which are the essential ones like fire exit, and she spots signs from almost like nowhere, you won’t be able to even see them sometimes on a small stool or something. And the kind of questions she ask, they’re just full of innocence and no preconceived notions as such just amazes me. I tend to have a smile. I don’t have all the answers, always. For instance, she’ll ask, “Why are dogs not allowed in this place? I don’t understand.” And I don’t have all the answers like I said, but it’s so interesting. And I’m just kind of now realizing through this journey that knowledge sharing, talking about science has to be a way of life. And I think the way you put it, Martina, was so nice that that’s definitely resonated so much with me. So, thank you for sharing that insight.

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Thanks. And I think it can be extended not only to talking to children or teenagers but also in our daily lives. If you have the scientific mindset, it could help you make a good decision about, for instance, saving money. Should I pay this amount of money for the salt for my dishwasher? Or can I just buy something with a larger granule size for the fraction of the price, right? And this kind of thinking can be applied everywhere in your life. It could be helping you, as I mentioned earlier, clean the apartment. It could help you realize when to go to see the doctor, how to plan your travels, how to be mindful of your carbon footprint, how to recycle properly, how to set up a compost and things like that. What kind of chemistry is happening as you bake and cook? How to improve your cooking abilities and skill? So, I think keeping this in mind that science is everywhere around us and being aware of it can only make our life better is important.

Nikesh Gosalia

Absolutely. I fully agree with you, Martina. I think you may have come across a particular journal, which is called Frontiers for Young Minds. So, there’s a publisher incidentally based in Switzerland, exactly. And we’ve worked with Frontiers. We talk to them quite a bit, and Frontiers for Young Minds is such a great initiative. And from what I understand, a lot of the audiences, a lot of the traffic that comes to the journal website is actually adults, because they want to understand science in a simpler manner, in a non-complex manner. And I think it’s fascinating just to see that trend increasing. And like you said science just as a way of life. Just a couple of quick questions, Martina. Just while you were talking to Jayashree, I was just curious. So, do you talk multiple languages? Do you know multiple languages?

Martina Ribar Hestericová

I speak about four and a half of them, let’s say, but you can only learn so much, right? So, when it comes to communicating on social media platforms, I tend to focus on my native language and English. I have been experimenting with German a little bit because I’ve been living in Switzerland for the past 9 years. So, I do speak German. My husband speaks a bit more. So, we are language enthusiasts. But it’s not on a level where we would be able to share theoretical physics yet.

Nikesh Gosalia

But still I mean 4-1/2, as you say, is quite impressive, Martina. And one other thing, which will be beneficial for the listeners, how do you keep yourself updated with the latest that is happening in science or specifically chemistry? I mean there’s so much of information available there. How do you keep yourself updated?

Martina Ribar Hestericová

It can be a bit overwhelming sometimes when you go online and see the amount of information out there. I think just be selective. You cannot know everything about everything. I tend to focus on areas that I find really interesting or that are really relevant for my daily life. So, I do read about the pandemic. I do read about the vaccine development and manufacturing, science and chemistry. I also am really fond of receiving newsletters on a daily basis, either from trade media or science media. And from time to time, I still have the Google Ads set up that I would get a notification anytime someone publishes something in the area of my Ph.D. research just to keep the nostalgic connection there going. And also, what I do – so it’s clear I’m active on social media. I’m also a social media consumer. I follow many science communicators on TikTok, also on Instagram, Twitter, all the hashtags that are relevant to what I do, but also to my interests. So, I try to use these platforms not only to create but also to receive and consume.

Nikesh Gosalia

Fantastic. Thank you, Martina, for sharing that. And thank you for all the great insights that you’ve shared today. This has been fabulous.

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Thanks for inviting me. It was really enjoyable to speak with you both.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

Thank you. This is awesome. And like I said, Nikesh set the right tone, and I think we just went into the conversation and we had so many other questions based on what you said. And as you can see, Nikesh and I’ve picked specific sentences you said. I think we have quotable quotes, a lot of them as well based on what you said, so thank you so much for doing this with us today. And all the best. And may your Instagram account double, triple, quadruple. May you communicate science even more to a wider audience and yeah, all the best with it.

Martina Ribar Hestericová

Thank you. And thanks again for having me. It was great.

Jayashree Rajagopalan

Thank you.

Nikesh Gosalia

Thank you, everyone for joining us. You can subscribe to this podcast on all major podcast platforms. Stay tuned for our next episode.

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